I'm going in another direction than all this "fire the head coach talk".
Last time I looked, coach Coughlin hasn't thrown on a pair of cleats and shook hands at the 50 yard line.

You can't win games when your QB leads the league with 24 INT's and offense has fumbled a league leading 17 times. It's also hard to win when your receivers continually drop catchable footballs.

Sure, coaches coach but some players don't learn or just lack the talent to get any better.

Now, when Tom Coughlin and Gerald Ingram helped a few years back with Tiki's fumbling issues they got all kinds of praise around the nfl world, and you still hear about it to this day. So what, did they just forget how to keep coaching that stuff? I don't think so. These fumbling problems that our RB's have is all on them.

Eli Manning is clearly in a slump and with an o-line playing the way the giants has, Jimmy Clausen could be putting up Tom Brady numbers.
I don't know why, but Eli has tried forcing in way too many throws this season, and many of them aren't desperation passes trying to win at the end of a game. He's doing this stuff way too early and way too often.

The lossed connection of qb coach, Chris Palmer and wr coach Mike Sullivan has been hurtful if I had to guess.
I see why Coughlin may have promoted Sullivan to qb coach but he's probably just not best suited there. Sullivan did wonders with our receivers last season by putting them in a good position to succeed.
As for newer wide receiver's coach Sean Ryan, there are just no credentials there to show why he even got the job.

I tend to like Perry Fewell for the most part. He plays with a lot of different disguises (although, sometimes too many) but usually lets his defense play agressive.
Like Vin mentioned, hard to fault him for the lack of quality linebackers.

All that said. I'm not blaming Coughlin but would consider a coaching change if the right one presented itself.
My early thoughts are "If it's not Cowher than just keep Coughlin"

Prediction; The only way Coughlin keeps his job is if the Giants back into the play-offs and win 2 games.

Pizan wrote:Fewell to me is inconsistent. We may never have another Spags so I have to stop comparing the DC's to him, I'll always be let down. Spags was perfect. He knew when to dial up the blitzes, when to play press man or to play a soft man or switch to zone. He seemed to know everything the offense was about to do and how to stop it. Spags was the man. Fewell will never be a spags but we could be doing much worse. I can't fault him for our incapable LBs either. But 70 some points in the last 5 quarters is a serious problem. Fewell needs to correct it. Lucky for him we play Washington.

If we beat Washington we finish the year as a 10 win team that missed the playoffs (assuming GB wins). Thats really not that bad. If that happens the only way I fire Coughlin is if we have a 99% shot at Bill Cowher. You gotta think, losing a coach like Cowher to another team just to keep Coughlin around another year is definitely weighing in on the decision. Also, getting Cowher is much less of a risk than firing TC for an unproven or already failed once coach like the guys on your list, Pete.

Cowher is returning to coaching next season. Mark my words. He lost his wife to cancer this past summer and his girls are in college. He's ready to return to coaching. But with that said, I think the 49ers job is much more appealing. Jed York will be willing to give Cowher the control he'll want and the team is already set for a 3-4 defense which he prefers. The only problem I see with that is that Cowher is an East coast guy. Played college/pro, coached, and retired all on the east coast.

If we lose against the skins, A change is needed and i'll talk about the other coaches at that time.

I actually like the option of Cowher personally, and I do think NYG is top of his list.

he is a proven experienced coach, he is still disciplined.

The style of football they used in Pittsburgh very much fits in with the traditional Giants style of football, plus the Maras know exactly what kind of guy they are getting.

Cowher would bring in his kind of guys for sure, but I also think a shake up is what is needed.

We can switch to a 3-4 and it would be easier than people think.

Tuck could play a similar style of DE role that Justin Smith or Darnell Dockett play. Joseph can play NT; Canty, Cofield and Bernard can also play DE; OSi, Kiwi, JPP and Sintim can play OLB; Goff, Boley, Bulluck, Blackburn, Wilkinson and Dillard can all play ILB. Other than Tuck, it may be a better fit for our front seven and Tuck can play that Bruce Smith/Leonard Marshall role.

it would currently roughly shape up like:

NT - Linval Joseph, ?

LDE - Chris Canty, Barry Cofield

RDE - Justin Tuck, Rocky Bernard

LOLB - Jason Pierre-Paul, Clint Sintim

LILB - Jon Goff, Keith Bulluck, Chase Blackburn

RILB - Michael Boley, Gerris Wilkinson, Phillip Dillard

ROLB - Osi Umenyiora, Matthias Kiwanuka

sure we would need some additional help (such as a back up NT), but it could be done, Cofield and Bernard could also likely backup at NT if needed as well.

Naturally if we switch to a 3-4, there will be some teething troubles, but we have the player base to get it done. A 3-4 does add more speed and variation, both areas where we have struggled in recent years. It is also worth mentioning that there are many different styles of 3-4 defenses (and 3-4 Hybrid defenses).

With that said it may be easier to build from our current 4-3, but I think we would be facing the same situations unless we find ourselves that genuius DC.

Big_Pete wrote:
How do you rate Fewell's performance as DC?

I think there will be serious discussion about Coughlin's future. It is not that Coughlin is a bad coach, but I don't think we are getting the most out of our roster and that new perspective is needed.

Another poster on a different forum pretty much sums up Coughlin pretty well imho

To be fair, I think Coughlin is one of the better coaches in the league at player development. A big reason why we don't have many busts is because Coughlin's approach works very well with developing young players.

The problem is, when we develop them, we don't put them in positions to maximize their talent. That's moreso the Xs and Os of coaching. And that has always been an issue under Coughlin.

The man does a great job of developing talent, and managing the team and having his players ready to play and play hard, but he's not the best strategist.

I would be ok with Coughlin, if he brought in new coordinators who were very good tactically. But that isn't going to happen unless he is pressured to.

I guess I have to hope that Gilbride and Fewell get Head Coaching jobs, both will be in the mix.

Without a doubt, it is important that the Giants KEEP both Coach Coughlin AND Matt Dodge. I think the special bond that has developed between thse two great leaders is an inspiration to the Giants organization , the Giants fans and the entire NFL.

56 Crazed Dogs wrote:I'm going in another direction than all this "fire the head coach talk".
Last time I looked, coach Coughlin hasn't thrown on a pair of cleats and shook hands at the 50 yard line.

You can't win games when your QB leads the league with 24 INT's and offense has fumbled a league leading 17 times. It's also hard to win when your receivers continually drop catchable footballs.

Sure, coaches coach but some players don't learn or just lack the talent to get any better.

Now, when Tom Coughlin and Gerald Ingram helped a few years back with Tiki's fumbling issues they got all kinds of praise around the nfl world, and you still hear about it to this day. So what, did they just forget how to keep coaching that stuff? I don't think so. These fumbling problems that our RB's have is all on them.

Eli Manning is clearly in a slump and with an o-line playing the way the giants has, Jimmy Clausen could be putting up Tom Brady numbers.
I don't know why, but Eli has tried forcing in way too many throws this season, and many of them aren't desperation passes trying to win at the end of a game. He's doing this stuff way too early and way too often.

The lossed connection of qb coach, Chris Palmer and wr coach Mike Sullivan has been hurtful if I had to guess.
I see why Coughlin may have promoted Sullivan to qb coach but he's probably just not best suited there. Sullivan did wonders with our receivers last season by putting them in a good position to succeed.
As for newer wide receiver's coach Sean Ryan, there are just no credentials there to show why he even got the job.

I tend to like Perry Fewell for the most part. He plays with a lot of different disguises (although, sometimes too many) but usually lets his defense play agressive.
Like Vin mentioned, hard to fault him for the lack of quality linebackers.

All that said. I'm not blaming Coughlin but would consider a coaching change if the right one presented itself.
My early thoughts are "If it's not Cowher than just keep Coughlin"

Prediction; The only way Coughlin keeps his job is if the Giants back into the play-offs and win 2 games.

I agree with a lot that. And I think your definitely on to something with the promotion of Sullivan to QB coach being apart of Eli's horrible season. Although Eli is a vet now and its time for him to take some accountability for his actions that promotion was Coughlins doing and that comes back on him.

All in all these turnovers may have definitely sealed Couhglins fate especially if we can get our hands on Cowher and fellas its looking like we have a pretty good shot.

Houston is rumored to be keeping Kubiak and trying to get Wade Phillips for the D. San Fran is rumored to want Harbaugh from Standford or Gruden if he doesn't end up in Clevland. Dallas is looking at Jason Garrett or Jeff Fisher if he gets fired. The only other team that has a shot in the Cowher sweepstakes is Carolina, IMO. But they are far from converting to a 3-4 and are far from championship contention.

Yeah I am thinking that we should either have Cowher or Coughlin next year. Either we should build on the platform we have, or we build on a similar (but different) platform.

I am not going to sell out on Perry Fewell yet. In fact there is a very real chance he gets a head coaching gig.

I think a big problem with our defense is our corners, other than Webster they are average at best and our safeties have been out of position trying to compensate.

Offensively I think some of the issues have to be with the receivers (other than Smith) and TEs, they are not consistent enough yet.

Offensively it just seems we aren't sharp, if receivers aren't putting down catches, or RBs fumbling or Eli's interceptions we have a good offense. It seems we are falling apart in the execution. I don't think you can fault Gilbride with that.

I totally agree that Sullivan has been part of the problem as QB coach, but Eli is a 7 year veteran, he should be able to do some of it himself.

I have been working on my latest thoughts to turn around the team, it is interesting what I came up with.

Greetings... I'm new to this board and have been a Giants' fan since 1956.

My take on Coughlin is simple, he's a very good coach but I believe his job is in peril. His contract runs out after the 2011 season. Giants' ownership has a history of not wanting a lame duck HC. Couple that with his age, 64 (not old in my book), and a miss of, or early exit from the playoffs, and I believe Tom will be dismissed.

Just my opinion mind you...

Boo wrote:Greetings... I'm new to this board and have been a Giants' fan since 1956.

My take on Coughlin is simple, he's a very good coach but I believe his job is in peril. His contract runs out after the 2011 season. Giants' ownership has a history of not wanting a lame duck HC. Couple that with his age, 64 (not old in my book), and a miss of, or early exit from the playoffs, and I believe Tom will be dismissed.

Just my opinion mind you...

Welcome to the forum and hope you stick around throughout the draft season as well. Pete and others always come up with interesting draft thoughts.

Sounds like I share much the same thoughts as you do on Tom Coughlin and his future of coaching.